In college, Lloyd Ecker took his future wife, Susan, on a first date to see Bette Midler in concert. The couple quickly fell in love—both with ‘Divine Miss M’ and each other. Over the years, Midler’s references to Sophie Tucker piqued the couple’s curiosity in the bold, bawdy vaudeville performer and led to the publication of a fictional memoir, I Am Sophie Tucker. The Eckers also produced The Outrageous Sophie Tucker, a documentary about the unlikely star shown at Mandel JCC’s Cleveland Jewish FilmFest last year. I spoke to the Eckers about the life and legacy of this Russian-born American Jewish woman who became one of the successful and talked about performers of the 20th century.
Her faith, her gender, her humble beginnings and her looks . . . Sophie Tucker faced a number of potential barriers to becoming a big star. How was she able to make it?
Susan: It was not easy. When she first tried to make it she was literally starving. She played for whatever someone would throw at her feet. If it was a rainy or snowy day and people didn’t come out she didn’t eat.
Lloyd: She ran out of money. She had saved up like 90 dollars in tip money to start. She took a job as a performer in a brothel to begin with because no one else would hire her. She started out on the top floor and made her way down to the rathskeller where all the action was with the rich people and the tips were so great she could send money home. But that wasn’t good enough for her. She wanted to be in vaudeville. So she left for a job that paid much less and that forced her to perform in black face.
Susan: But it was the theater. She had this tremendous determination. She had a lot of confidence in herself. She had incredible charisma and a powerful voice.
Lloyd: They said she could “peel the paint off the walls” at the back of the theaters.
Susan: And I think there was this desperate feeling that she was never going back. She was never going to end up a scrubwoman in a kitchen like her mother. I think in order to make it anywhere you have to have that determination. Especially as a women . . .
Lloyd: Especially as a women in showbiz . . . you had to be a killer.
Susan: Especially as a Jewish woman in showbiz at that time. Sophie was able to draw a crowd and create a fan base. She worked every day from the moment she got up. She would go out on the street and ingratiate herself with people and invite them to her shows. Then she would take it a step further and write letters. She was always working her career.
Lloyd: She was never off.
Susan: Vaudeville saw it could increase the house take if women could come into shows. Sophie recognized this so she made sure she appealed to the women who would schlep their husbands to the show. When she got on the stage she looked dazzling. And she turned her deficits into assets—saying and doing things that people wouldn’t have accepted if she had been thin.
What do you think was the biggest obstacle Sophie Tucker faced?
Susan: I think that she was a woman. There was a story that she came home once and she was talking about what to do about her son for school. Her brother said he didn’t think it was right and she told him it was none of his business and to stay out of it. Her mother came over and slapped her in the face. Her mother said something like, “He’s a man, respect him.”
Lloyd: Even though she had been in Ziegfeld’s Follies, nothing had changed at home. Actually, in the world. She wasn’t really about women’s rights, but she was interested in herself . . . in her being equal with everyone else.
How controversial was Sophie really?
Susan: Any of the, say, sex songs she did . . . she did them for publicity. Just like Lady Gaga or Madonna push the envelope today. It’s the same thing.
Lloyd: Even when she was 70. New York City decided that every nightclub worker should have a fingerprint license. She saw an opportunity for publicity and refused saying, “They’re going to have to come down here and arrest me.” So she’s doing her show and the cops come in. She says, “Boys, can you wait till I finish this up?” Sure, no problem. “Do you mind if I change before we go?” Sure, no problem. So she calls all the reporters and they meet her at the station.
So a lot of the controversy she created was to spark press coverage?
Lloyd: Absolutely. When she went in to get her tooth pulled, she’d tell everyone she was dying. And then when she was actually sick it became national news.
The movie indicated she sent money back to her family. Did she do that all of her life?
Susan: Yes. She paid for her sister Annie’s wedding. She made sure she was set up in business. She took care of her brothers and sisters her whole life.
Lloyd: Not just her family, either. Actors who were down on their luck, she would give them money. And if someone wrote to her she’d give them something.
Susan: We saw letters that would say something like, “Dear Sophie, thank you so much, my mother wants to thank you for the clothing you sent. She was able to make several outfits for our family.” Sometimes she’d splash something about her philanthropy on the front page and other times she’d make a gesture quietly. It was both personal and public.
Lloyd: If she liked a person, she would take them in. She launched the career of Jerry Lewis and Dean Martin. She saw them on the beach in Atlantic City just trying to get noticed. She went back to a club and said they had to put them on stage.
Susan: We interviewed a cross section of people in productions and most had something to say about how gracious she was. And yet there were those who said she was tough as nails. She had a soft side, but she was always on.
Sophie had a 60-year career that involved stage, screen and radio. To what do you attribute her longevity?
Susan: Perseverance. She changed her act and made it current and timely ever six months.
Lloyd: She really kept evolving to stay relevant. She didn’t want to quit. She wanted to be number one till the day she died.
How do you think Sophie perceived herself?
Lloyd: The biggest thing ever.
Was that real? People can project that sort of confidence and still suffer from insecurities.
Susan: By all accounts, it was real. She was a very strong person with a very strong personality. She had a very strong sense of self.
Lloyd: We saw some interviews with Fanny Brice where people would ask about Sophie—they were friends—and she said something to the effect of “what you see is exactly what you get.”
What do you think Sophie’s legacy is?
Lloyd: There wouldn’t have been a Mae West. There wouldn’t have been a Marilyn Monroe.
Susan: No Joan Rivers. No Sarah Silverman.
Lloyd: All these women pushing the envelope? Sophie opened the door for them.
—Sam Fryberger, Director, Marketing & Communications
